SH: Wayne Bennett says time was the main factor in him moving on from the Brisbane Broncos. He mentioned you as having gone through a similar predicament. Was time the main reason you had to finish up at Essendon?

KS: I spent 27 years doing it. Could I have gone three years earlier? Yes, I could. Essendon now has five years to prove to me whether they made the right decision. I'll just sit there like a fox around a rabbit hole and wait. Longevity is all about the person and all about the club. I was very lucky to have a club that told me year after year, 'You've got the record on the board, we'll go with you again.' There were times when the vote would have been close but they stuck with me.

SH: You write in your book about the need for management people to stick to what they know best and not interfere with the team. Is it the same in reverse?

KS: I think, at times, people get ahead of themselves in a department they don't really know enough about. Coaches are a different breed. They are tribal, they don't share thoughts with each other, they have friendships from a distance. There are many more managers than coaches. [The late Essendon president and AFL chairman] Ron Evans once told me, 'You can find a manager anywhere, but it's very hard to find a good coach.' It's like great artists or musicians - they are different in their own way and hard to find. So, yes, coaches should stay out of management, and managers should stay out of coaching. That's the deal.

SH: Another rugby league coach, Michael Hagan, quit his job because he felt the game's integrity had been adversely affected by rules changes. Does AFL have the same issue?

KS: I think we should be shaping the future of the game. Therefore I'm not worried about rules changes. As long as they're good, vibrant, creative and build an exciting game. I think we should be asking ourselves, 'What is the best way to make the greatest game of all codes for 2025?' - and plan it now. That will create an enormous amount of attraction for prospective people from overseas. I want them to think, 'I like this game. This is a game we don't have.' Japan, China, India - they should be excited by our game. That's what our commissioners should be looking at. I think running and taking on your opponents at ground level has probably started to overshadow high marking. No one would have thought that 25 years ago. But people are different these days. What they thought was daredevil behaviour then is different now. Jump up and land on your head? OK, a bit dumb. Run and have five guys chasing you? That's scary. It's pretty exciting.

I'm working with the AFL, gone back to Richmond to help in commercial operations, I'm looking at doing icon games. But how do we make the game better? That's a great challenge for someone with 44 years' experience. I really like it.

SH: You write in your book that in 1985, Geoffrey Edelsten offered you a lot of money to coach the Swans. You were approached again in the early 1990s. How close were we to seeing you as the Swans' coach?

KS: Basil Sellers and the board in the '90s put a great package together. That was the closest I came to coaching the Swans.

SH: Big mistakes were made in the establishment of the Swans. Why will the establishment of the western Sydney team be better?

KS: There's no doubt there were mistakes made with the Swans. Hopefully, we're developing a very good youth program now that will be substantial and will sustain a real growth of football through the ranks in Sydney. But it will take time, patience and understanding. It might take half a century.

I think two teams in Sydney would be very good. The Swans should not be worried. How many people from western Sydney actually watch the Swans at the SCG? Not many. But too many people are looking at it as being a competition for support from the eastern suburbs or southern Sydney. What about all those people who live in western Sydney and surrounds, and even all the way down to Albury? Western Sydney will include Riverina and Canberra as support bases, so it's not just about western Sydney. There's a big population whose children should have access to the dream of playing AFL or any sport. It's stupid to think, 'Don't touch western Sydney because they're different.' It has to happen.

SH: You've pushed for expansion to far off places. But what is the use of doing that when the nation's largest city is still unconvinced by AFL?

KS: We're behind the marketplace worldwide and in Sydney. So why wouldn't you want to face up to the two together? There are people whose job it is to expand the game nationally. But our biggest failure, I believe, has been that we don't get a dollar from overseas. People went offshore centuries ago to find new trade markets. They sought out new ideas and opportunities. It took a lot of courage and a lot of leadership. So why shouldn't we do it in sport? We didn't have the finances in the past, but we do now.

SH: Should a coach be responsible for a player's behaviour away from the field?

KS: No, absolutely not. Life's up to yourself. No one should go looking around for someone to blame. It's about you. The same goes for me: if I muck up, it's my fault, there is no one I should blame. The coach's job is to coach a team, it's not to catch a bloke when he's falling.

SH: So was anyone to blame for the Ben Cousins situation, or was it all up to Ben?

KS: People have blamed all sorts of factors. But the reality is that Ben's got to look at himself - and he's doing that, hopefully. Sooner or later you have to look in the mirror and accept responsibility for yourself. People need to take more responsibility for their actions. That's what life is all about. A lot of players have an enormous amount of discipline. The ones who do the wrong thing are maybe 5percent of the 650 to 700 players. But they are a boil on the backside of the commissioners, whether it's soccer, league, rugby or any sport. If you haven't got yourself right, then work at getting it right.

SH: A common theme in your book seems to be your love of Australia and issues going on within it. You talk about indigenous issues, environmental issues, and there are many ideas about how you believe Australia can be improved.

KS: I love my country. Why wouldn't you? We are a fortunate nation. Every time you turn on the news you are reminded of how lucky we are. No one likes a sunburnt country when the fires come but you always see people driving in from the next state to put out the damn bushfires, or deal with floods, or whatever. What I've learnt from this country is that there is opportunity. That's why any time I see people pushing situations that are going to lead to less opportunities, I'll put up the red flag. In football, that means dealing properly with indigenous issues, opportunities for rookies, traineeships. Any steps backwards really annoy me. WHY NATIONAL SERVICE IS A GOOD IDEA

Kevin Sheedy: Yes. National service is about caring for people going through difficult periods: floods, fires - there's a lot going on in the nation - and I think we've dropped the baton there. It's not good enough.

Don't complain about obesity, drugs and grog - do something about it. That means across the board, all governments, sort yourselves out.

Physical education in schools started to drop off way back in the 1970s when I was a development officer at Richmond. The funding of health and fitness education in schools is nothing compared to what it was. The governments of this country have dropped off in the development of people and teaching appreciation and respect for having a healthy body. The Sun-Herald: You've said you support the idea of young people doing national service.